Piers Morgan and Tucker Carlson pushed back against anti-Muslim rhetoric during a recent discussion that touched on religion, cultural identity, and rising political polarisation in the United Kingdom and the United States.
Morgan noted that nearly half of the UK population still identifies as Christian, while almost 40% now report no religious belief. He said public debate around Muslims in Britain had often been distorted, adding:
“There’s a slight amplification of, for example, the number of Muslims in the country. There are nearly 4 million Muslims in the country, and that represents about 6% of the population … the over-amplification of the Islam problem, as people put it, or the Muslim problem has been massively overstated.”
Carlson agreed, saying hostile narratives about Muslims were manufactured. “That’s an op obviously. Hate the Muslims. No, we know where that’s coming from.”
Though Carlson did not expand upon where the “op” is coming from, many have speculated that he meant Israel and its supporters, given his earlier contention that “you’re not allowed to criticise Israel”.
Morgan said he disliked such framing of blaming Muslims, and Carlson replied: “I hate it.”
Morgan added that in his part of West London, “most of the businesses would have Muslim employees”, while Carlson argued that hostility toward any religious group was wrong, saying hatred of Muslims was “the same” as hatred of Christians or Jews.
Morgan said: “Hatred is hatred is hatred… the moment you’re in the hate game, then I think you’re losing whatever argument it is you’re trying to have.”
‘More in common’
Carlson said his frustration lay elsewhere, emphasising that he had “never argued with a Muslim.” He added, talking about Muslims he’s met in the UK:
“I’ve never argued with an actual Muslim … We probably agree on a lot. It’s the secular self-hating whites that stand up from the table and leave while I’m eating here.”
Carlson went on to attack perceived secular liberal hostility toward religious conservatives. He said he had “more in common with the Pakistani cab driver than… with anyone who works at the Times of London”, Q1 describing those he opposes as “secular self-hating whites”.
Morgan challenged the idea that multiculturalism had made Britain worse, saying the link between diversity and social decline was not automatic and that “there are lots of white people who behave very badly in this country”.
Carlson responded that his own experiences shaped his views, repeating: “For the fifth time, I have more in common with the sincerely religious Pakistani cab driver than I do with anyone who works at the Times of London… And they’re white.”
The American conservative briefly developed this point, talking about his experience of passing through UK customs.
“You know, it’s like, go see the [customs] attendant. And by the way, the attendant was some Pakistani woman who’s like, ‘oh, we’re so glad you’re here’. Which I don’t think I would have gotten from the liberal white lady. So, once again, I’m not attacking anyone based on their race.”
Tommy Robinson
The two also rounded on notorious far-right anti-Islam figure Tommy Robinson, real name Stephen Yaxley-Lennon.
Morgan claimed Robinson was deliberately driving anti-Muslim rhetoric to convince US audiences that the UK was on the verge of a “civil war”, describing him as “a little shit-stirrer”, as well as saying “he’s guilty of multiple crimes … thuggery, fraud, you name it.” Carlson agreed that Robinson “seems like a fraud”.
Despite Carlson’s repeated repudiation of racism when talking about the UK’s problems, the former Fox News host did continue to echo arguments close to the far-right Great Replacement theory, with him lamenting the idea that the “people who built Stonehenge” were being “replaced”.
The exchange followed wider media coverage in which the two broadcasters have criticised anti-Muslim narratives, with Morgan recently defending British Muslims on the far-right Patrick Bet-David (PBD) podcast.
Carlson has recently become the figurehead of the anti-Israel wing of Donald Trump’s MAGA movement, with him criticising US-funding of Israel’s war on Gaza and the influence of the Israel lobby on American politics.
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